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Thursday, February 03, 2005

Propriety in Prayer

Keeping in mind that my ideas and opinions are but dung, I am trying to reconcile some of God's ideas here; not to justify my own behaviour, but to conform myself to His will.

Look at what it says in I Corinthians 11:3 - 16 (NIV quote included below). Does this mean that our parents' generation was Biblically correct in saying that my brother's long hair was a disgrace? (verse 14) Does this mean that the Minnenites are correct when their women wear head coverings? Does this mean that Pentecostals are correct when their women do not cut their hair? (verses 5-6 & 13-15)

Why do we seem to disregard this scripture?

What, if any connection is there with I Timothy 2:11-15? In light of this passage, would "leading" a corporate prayer in church or in a prayer meeting be considered having authority over a man?

Tim Bayly said:
Addressing the matter of propriety in prayer, the Apostle Paul again emphasizes this order: “For man does not originate from woman, but woman from man; for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake” (1 Corinthians 11:8,9, NAS95).
http://timbayly.worldmagblog.com/timbayly/archives/2005_01.html1/3/2005 Sexuality; Scripture's Clarity & Simplicity

1 Corinthians 11:3-16 (http://www.biblegateway.com)
3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head–it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head,[b] since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head. 11In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God. 13Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. 16If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice–nor do the churches of God.

1 Timothy 2:11-15 (http://www.biblegateway.com)
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[a] will be saved[b] through childbearing–if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

So, what do you think? What was the Holy Spirit saying to people through the ages in these passages (especially regarding hair). If this is true, should I cancel my nest hair appointment? What about public prayer: should a woman lead a prayer out loud in church?

Rachel

4 comments:

Hind's Feet said...

So, I have wondered the same about hair. And dress. For about three years I only wore dresses as I read in the old testament that women were not to dress as men. Imagine my surpise to see a man, with long hair, earrings and no shirt, wearing a.... skirt. So, that really had me stumped. All that to say. I HAVE NO IDEA. I wish I knew. I think I am to strive to be "feminine", that is not to try to look like or act like a man, my husband, the head of the house. I think I can be feminine and wear a pair of slacks and I can be masculine and wear a skirt. I think it is what is in our hearts MORE than what is on our body. Hope that makes sense.
Hugs, Kim

Rachel Pierson said...

I agree. The church I went to actually used the admonition for wormen to dress modestly as meaning dresses. They said that the greek word (cosmios) had the connotation of "flowing" in the original meaning. When I looked into it further, though, it actually means "orderly" or appropriately.

Kim, you lasted longer than I did. I only wore a dress for about 9 or 10 months before I decided that that attire drew more attention to me than to Christ, and at times was not very orderly, and that it certainly wasn't appropriate or modest to wear a dress to an amusement park. So I had to rush out and buy some jeans.

So what about public prayer. Should a woman lead in public prayer?

Hind's Feet said...

IF I am with my husband, then I believe he is to speak for our household. If I were a widow or single I believe it might be different. But if I am married and my spouse is not present or not a Christian or not leading I am not sure, but I still hesitate to lead out. If it were from the pulpit I would not do it as I would feel that would be "leading" the church, inclusive of men. But, were I to be praying from the pews then it might have a different connotation. Please note that when we approach the apologetic nature of teaching in our homeschool we try to find men to lead the young men.... kind of like the Sunday Schools. Now, if you were to ask for specific scripture for each instance I am not sure I could give it, and that is where I fail. But if you pointed to the scripture that said women were not to be teaching/leading/etc. men in the church I believe that would cover it. WIsh my memory held verses. It holds and retains ideas, but not specifics nor books. Keep it coming, this is interesting.

Rachel Pierson said...

Well, I got my hair cut. I would like to see this subject talked about more. Paul was so adament about this ending the discussion with verse 16:

16If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice–nor do the churches of God.

I just don't know how we choose this verse to take seriously and not that one.

I will be checking back to see if some one who is wiser than I can address this subject.

--Rachel